you can rest assured that they're going to be tax increases, tax-rate increases for the top 2%. you're probably going to see more in the form of health care entitlement cuts. >> ifill: you're thinking, however, that whatever compromise they come up with will be some distance from what you proposed more than a year ago? >> actually, it was more than a year ago. it was more than two years ago. times change. elections happen. there are consequences to those elections. yes, i think you'll see a different product come out. but i think the key is you're going to see a balanced approach with both revenue and spending cuts. you're going to see at least $4 trillion because that is the minimum amount you have to reduce the deficit in order to stabilize the debt and get it on a downward path as a percent of g.d.p. >> ifill: you said a moment ago that this is theater. these are both like opening bids that either side is going to reject. how do we get past that? how do they get past that if, in fact, the catastrophe everyone is warning about is to be avoided. >> if they got to agreement the